Commerce de Marseilles

Posted by F.F. on Tuesday 12th of November 2024 13:21

Corrected comment (I hope it won't be considered as a spam—if any comment here is to be considered as such) :

Le Commerce-de-Marseille was launched in 1788, just as Edward's Hunt Royal George, but was widely larger: 2747 tons burthen and a displacement of 5030ｔ (SI), versus 2289 tons and some 3800 or 3900ｔ (SI). She and her sisterships proved to be very fine sailers, the best one being les États-de-Bourgogne (later renamed la Côte d'or, later la Montagne, later le peuple, finally l'Océan, fist laid down of her class but launched in 1790; decommissioned in 1850, broken up in 1855).

Ships built on these lines remained the largest ones in the world (the Santísima Trinidad, after her 1795-1796 enlargement, had a burthen of maybe 2450 tons, and, according to Spanish archive, a displacemement of 4998 ½ｔ) until slightly broadened sisterships of them were launched (from 1806 to 1854; some 2800 tons in burthen, displacement of 5090ｔ). Later Turkish ship, the Mahmudiye, launched in 1828, took the lead (see the very interesting comments written by «Hilmi» on this website, in the page related to that man-of-war; from both her size and her laden we can assume she had a displacement of between 6500 and 7000ｔ).

William James describes le Commerce-de-Marseille as follows:

«[…] that superb and powerful ship, the Commerce-de-Marseille, never sailed forth as a cruiser in the service of England. This ship measured 2747 tons. As the Commerce-de-Marseille was the largest, so was she the most beautiful ship that had hitherto been seen; and, notwithstanding her immense size, sailed and worked like a frigate. »
[…]
«On the 17ᵗʰ and 18ᵗʰ of November [1795] the English Channel was visited by a westerly gale of such extraordinary violence, as scarcely to fall short of a West Indian hurricane. Rear-admiral Christian, with a squadron of eight sail of the line, having in charge a fleet of 200 transports and West Indiamen with upwards of 16,000 troops on board, was compelled to return to Spithead, after having had the ships of his convoy, with which he had quitted St. Helen's only a day or two before, scattered in every direction. Several of the transports and merchantmen foundered, and others went on shore and were wrecked. Above 200 dead bodies were taken up between Portland and Bridport. While the gale was at its height the shock of an earthquake was felt in several parts of the kingdom. The repairs of the squadron and remaining ships of the convoy made it the 5ᵗʰ of December before the rear-admiral could again put to sea; but the fleet was again separated in a dreadful storm, which continued for two or three weeks.
Among the ships that nearly became the grave of her crew in the first of these disasters was the late French three-decker Commerce-de-Marseille. Having been found so badly timbered and so greatly out of order as not to be worth the cost of a thorough repair, she remained at anchor at Spithead until the autumn of the present year; she then underwent a partial repair and was armed and equipped for sea. Shortly afterwards, however, the guns on her first and second decks were sent on shore again, and the ports caulked up; and, fitted as a store-ship, the Commerce-de-Marseille, drawing at the time 29 feet water, formed part of Rear-admiral Christian's expedition to the West Indies. In the gale, the partial effects of which we have just described, this castle of a store-ship was driven back to Portsmouth; and, from the rickety state of her upper works, and the great weight of her lading, it was considered a miracle that she escaped foundering. The Commerce-de-Marseille relanded her immense cargo, and never went out of harbour again; but the ship was not taken to pieces, and consequently remained on the lists of the navy until the month of August, 1802.»

Her draught of water in November 1795 implies that, as a store-ship, she was overloaded by more than 600ｔ, most possibly 700 or 800ｔ (SI). As an overloaded ship rolls and pitches toughly in a rough sea, for sure it's a miracle that, despite furthermore having been found ill timbered and having undergone only a partial repair, she didn't sink.

Posted by F.F. on Monday 11th of November 2024 19:16

Le Commerce-de-Marseille was launched in 1788, just as Edward's Hunt Royal George, but was widely larger: 2747 tons burthen and a displacement of 5030 (SI), versus 2289 tons and some 3800 or 3900 (SI). She and her sisterships proved to be very fine sailers, the best one being les États-de-Bourgogne (later renamed la Côte d'or, later la Montagne, later le peuple, finally l'Océan, fist laid down of her class but launched in 1790; decommissioned in 1850, brocken up in 1855).

Ships built on these lines remained the largest ones in the world (the Santísima Trinidad, after her 1795-1796 enlargement, had a burthen of maybe 2450 tons, and, according to Spanish archive, a displacemement of 4998 ½ｔ) until slightly broadened sisterships of them were launched (some 2800 tons in burthen, displacement of 5090ｔ). A Turkish ship, the Mahmudiye, became the largest in 1828 (see the very interesting comments written by «Hilmi» on this website, in the page related to that man-of-war; from both her size and her load we can assume she had a displacement of between 6500 and 7000ｔ).

William James describes le Commerce-de-Marseille as follows:

«[…] that superb and powerful ship, the Commerce-de-Marseille, never sailed forth as a cruiser in the service of England. This ship measured 2747 tons. As the Commerce-de-Marseille was the largest, so was she the most beautiful ship that had hitherto been seen; and, notwithstanding her immense size, sailed and worked like a frigate. »
[…]
«On the 17ᵗʰ and 18ᵗʰ of November [1795] the English Channel was visited by a westerly gale of such extraordinary violence, as scarcely to fall short of a West Indian hurricane. Rear-admiral Christian, with a squadron of eight sail of the line, having in charge a fleet of 200 transports and West Indiamen with upwards of 16,000 troops on board, was compelled to return to Spithead, after having had the ships of his convoy, with which he had quitted St. Helen's only a day or two before, scattered in every direction. Several of the transports and merchantmen foundered, and others went on shore and were wrecked. Above 200 dead bodies were taken up between Portland and Bridport. While the gale was at its height the shock of an earthquake was felt in several parts of the kingdom. The repairs of the squadron and remaining ships of the convoy made it the 5ᵗʰ of December before the rear-admiral could again put to sea; but the fleet was again separated in a dreadful storm, which continued for two or three weeks.
Among the ships that nearly became the grave of her crew in the first of these disasters was the late French three-decker Commerce-de-Marseille. Having been found so badly timbered and so greatly out of order as not to be worth the cost of a thorough repair, she remained at anchor at Spithead until the autumn of the present year; she then underwent a partial repair and was armed and equipped for sea. Shortly afterwards, however, the guns on her first and second decks were sent on shore again, and the ports caulked up; and, fitted as a store-ship, the Commerce-de-Marseille, drawing at the time 29 feet water, formed part of Rear-admiral Christian's expedition to the West Indies. In the gale, the partial effects of which we have just described, this castle of a store-ship was driven back to Portsmouth; and, from the rickety state of her upper works, and the great weight of her lading, it was considered a miracle that she escaped foundering. The Commerce-de-Marseille relanded her immense cargo, and never went out of harbour again; but the ship was not taken to pieces, and consequently remained on the lists of the navy until the month of August, 1802.»

Her draught of water in November 1795 implies that, as a store-ship, she was overloaded by more than 600ｔ, possibly 700 or 800ｔ (SI). As an overloaded ship rolls and pitches toughly in a rough sea, for sure it's a miracle that, despite furthermore having be found ill timbered and having undergone only a partial repair, she didn't sink.

Posted by MiguelUrges on Friday 8th of November 2024 09:33

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