Nuestra Señora de la Santísima Trinidad

Posted by F.F. on Saturday 17th of September 2022 14:58

I made some mistakes in my previous comment.

• I misprinted the length of the Santísima Trinidad, as launched (59,54 ｍ, instead of 58,54).

• I mistaked about the displacement of the French 118/120-gun sline-of-battle ships: only the second batch of that class (ships launched from 1806) had a displacement of some 5080-5090ｔ; those launched before (of which 3 still existed in France in 1805: the Océan, formerly the États-de-Bourgogne, launched in 1790; the Majestueux, formerly the République-française, launched in 1802; and the Impérial, formerly the Vengeur, launched in 1803) had a displacement of 5020-5030ｔ; and, according to a Turkish historian, Mʳ Emir Yener, two more had been built in Turkey on the same plan (the Fethiye and the Mesudiye).
So the gap between the displacement of the Santísima Trinidad (4998ｔ) and that of a French or Turkish 118/120-gun ship of the line then afloat was small.

• The Spanish estado general of October, the 19ᵗᵗ, 1805, gives to the artillery of the Santísima Trinidad four 4-pdr howitzers (recently added, according to batalladetrafalgar), not four 4-pdr swivel guns; yet she was rated as a 136-gun ship of the line, not as a 140-gun one.
So her broadside, slighly greater than I wrote it had been, was:
— Long guns:
9×8 libras
18×12 libras
17×24 libras
16×36 libras
— Howitzers:
8×24-pdr 2×4-pdr
— Broadside:
1272 + 200 libras ≈ 1290 + 203 pounds ≈ 585 + 92 ㎏
— Composite broadside (long guns and howitzers):
1472 libras ≈ 1493.10 pounds ≈ 677,26 ㎏

• Wikipedia in French states that, from 1803, the French 118/120-gun ships of the line mounted:
— Long guns:
10×8 livres
17×18 livres
17×24 livres
16×36 livres
— Howitzers:
3×36 livres
— Broadside:
1370 + 108 liv. ≈ 1478 + 117 pounds ≈ 671 + 53 ㎏
— Composite broadside (long guns and howitzers):
1478 livres ≈ 1595.02 pounds ≈ 723,49 ㎏

Posted by F.F. on Sunday 21st of March 2021 21:56

Several sources state that the Santísima Trinidad (1769-1805) was either the largest ship of her time, or the most powerful, or both ; but according to Wikipedia she was somewhat smaller than the French 120-gun ships of the line (1788-1867).

The dimensions of the Santísima Trinidad when she was launched were :
Lenght, 213 pies de Burgos 8 pulgadas
Keel, 182 pies 5 pulgadas
Beam, 57 pies 9 pulgadas
Depth [to deck], 28 pies 11 pulgadas

Wikipedia in Spanish also states that her « desplazamiento » was 4902 t, i. e. 4902 tons (SI). That figure comes from « Modelos De Arsenal Del Museo Naval. Evolución de la construcción naval española, siglos XVII-XVIII » (José Ignacio González-Aller Hierro, Cruz Apestegui, Jorge Pia, Carmen Zamarrón ; Barcelona, Lunwerg Editores, 2004), but in fact it is 4902 toneladas, equal to 4511 tons (SI).

According to Wikipedia in Spanish, 213 pies de Burgos y 8 pulgadas are equal to 61,40 ｍ, so one Burgos foot = 28,74 ㎝. According to Wikipedia in English, 213 pies de Burgos y 8 pulgadas are equal to 59,53 ｍ, so one Burgos foot = 27,86 ㎝.

Angelo Martini's Manuel de Metrologia (Braidense University website) gives the point to Wikipedia in English : one Burgos foot = 27,8635 ㎝ (the lenght assumed by Wikipedia in Spanish is that of another Spanish foot) ; comparison with English measurements of Spanish ships of the line proves the same thing.

The dimensions of the Santísima Trinidad in 1769 were then :
Lenght, 58,54 ｍ
Keel, 50,83 ｍ
Beam, 16,09 ｍ
Depth [to deck], 8,06 ｍ
Displacement, 4511ｔ

The last figure is a gross one, displacements being calculated from seawater density, but the famous Jorge Juan himself (notorious scientist, and founder of the building system used in Spanish shipyards from c. 1750 to c. 1765) over-estimated it by 1 % in his treaty Examen maritimo (1771).

Those figures make out of the Santíma Trinidad a large ship, but not the largest of her time, two French ships being larger than her : the fourth Le Royal-Louis (1759-1772 ; 61,72 ｍ × 16,56 ｍ × 7,93 ｍ ; 116 guns ; displacement of such ships according to J. Boudriot, in Le Vaisseau de 74 Canons, was c. 4800ｔ) and La Bretagne (1766-1795 ; 59,77 ｍ × 16,24 ｍｍ × 7,96 ｍ ; displacement, from the same source, might be c. 4600ｔ).

Comparing the Santísima Trinidad with English ships isn't possible without correcting data : in French and Spanish shipyards, measurements were made according to the same criteria, which differ from those of the British Navy. Ships, as measured in England, were a bit shorter (current difference : c. one foot), and the depth in hold given by British Navy's lists is smaller (currently, for ships of the line : c. one foot eight inches) than the depth to deck measured in Europe. Keel lenght was even more different. On the other hand, beam was measured with planking in the British Navy, but not in Spain nor in France. Yet it is possible to know what would be the dimensions of the Santísima Trinidad in 1769, according to British standards, by comparing her to the two other Spanish first rates taken in 1797 : her lenght would have been c. 193 ~ 195 ft ; her beam, 54' 1" ; her depth in hold, c. 24' 7" ~ 25' ; and her burthen, some 2300 ~ 2400 tons (versus some 2550 for La Bretagne, and over 2700 for Le Royal-Louis).

The Estado general del dia 19 de octubre 1805 ( batalladetrafalgar ) describes the Santísima Trinidad as she was two days before the battle of Trafalgar :
Lenght, 220 p. 6 p. (61,44 ｍ)
Keel, 188 p. (52,38 ｍ)
Beam, 58 p. (16,16 ｍ)
Depth [to deck], 28 p. 9 p. (8,01 ｍ)
5432 toneladas.

The last figure is her displacement (calculated from seawater density, then known with accuracy around 0,3 %), and is equal to 4998ｔ (SI).

Once more, comparison with the two first rates taken in 1797 gives her dimensions according to British criteria : lenght, c. 200' ; beam, 54' 4" ; depth of hold, c. 24' 5" ~ 24' 10" ; burthen, c. 2400 ~ 2500 tons. With the same standards, the dimensions of a French 120-gun ship of the line were (Clowes & alii, The Royal Navy,. A History from the Earliest Times to the Present, ⅳ) : lenght, 208' 4" ; beam, 54' 9½" ; depth of hold, 25' ½" ; burthen, 2747 tons ; and displacement, according to French data, was some 5080ｔ (SI).

Many sources claim that the Santísima Trinidad in october 1805 had 136 or 140 guns. The Estado general del dia 19 de octubre 1805 gives the accurate number : she had 4 pedreros, i. e. swivel guns, 16 howitzers and 120 long guns. The number of 140 is accurate where swivel guns are considered, but neither the Spanish Navy, nor lesser the French ang English ones, considered them in rating ; the Spanish Navy considered either the long guns and the howitzers (inefficient weapons, failed answer to the British carronades, and later replaced by true carronades), so in the Estado general the Santísima Trinidad is a 136-gun ship of the line, but either in the British Navy and in the French one the same ship which the same artillery would have been rated as a 120-gun ship of the line.

The armement of the Santísima Trinidad (Estado general) :
120 long guns, 16 howitzers
Broadside (long guns) :
16×36-pdr 17×24-pdr 18×12-pdr 9×8-pdr
1272 libras ≈ 1290 lb ≈ 585 ㎏
Howitzers :
8×24-pdr
192 libras ≈ 195 lb ≈ 88 ㎏

French 120-gun ships of the line :
120 long guns, 6 howitzers
Broadside (long guns) :
16×36-pdr 17×24-pdr 17×12-pdr 10×8-pdr
1268 livres ≈ 1368 lb ≈ 621 ㎏
Howitzers :
3×36-pdr
108 livres ≈ 117 lb ≈ 53 ㎏

Composite broadside (both long guns and howitzers) :
1464 libras versus 1376 livres.
Which means a greater broadside (purely theorically) for the Santísima Trinidad, the gap being 15,96ｇ ≈ 0.56 oz – lesser than 0.024 % !

But the advantage favouring the Spanish ship is due to her howitzers, those ineffective weapons.

A few years ago, Wikipedia unstiffly said that the Santísima Trinidad had been the flagship of the French and Spanish fleet in the Channel in 1779, asking for evidence (« citation needed »). Today, whereas this mistake is corrected, a new one is in its place : « Santísima Trinidad became the flagship of the Spanish fleet, taking part in the Franco-Spanish operations in the English Channel in the late summer of that year.[citation needed] ». The needed citation won't come either, for we know by a famous French historian (Louis-Édouard Chevalier, Histoire de la marine française pendant la guerre de l'indépendance américaine, Paris, Hachette, 1877, pp. 162 & sqr) that the 66 ships of the line the French and Spanish altogether had in the Channel in 1779 (30 French ones, 36 Spanish ones) were divided in three parts :
– A light squadron (5 ships : 3 French ones, 2 Spanish ones ; flagship : La Couronne, a French 80-gunner).
– An observation squadron of 16 ships (all of them Spanish ones ; flagship : the Santísima Trinidad).
– The main squadron (45 ships of the line ; 27 of them were French ones, 18 were Spanish ones ; chief-commander of the whole was count Louis d'Orvilliers, his flagship being La Bretagne, of 110 guns).

Posted by Wade Falcon on Wednesday 3rd of June 2020 16:33

I believe this ship (Nuestra Señora de la Santisima Trinidad 1769) may be the same ship that brought many of the Islenos from Havana to Louisiana in 1783 during peacetime. See the book "Canary Islanders of Louisiana" by Gilbert Din. He mentions the ship and Borja.